Mast suggestions and availability

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EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524
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Mast suggestions and availability

Post by EdS » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:37 am

Morning or evening depending where you are.

I have a b5 with its original cst15 rig.
I sail with an all up weight of between 175 and 200 kg
so finding the mast a little soft and I am interested in the options.

I have seen the thread discussion on previous mast designs but from where I an sitting I cannot make an informed choice.

So the considerations

1. What is competitive and would be a wise purchase looking forward ( I am not there yet)
2. Is it foolish to buy a mast used?
3. I have gunwale mounted shrouds does this influence the decisions
4. Reliability of each of the options
5. Whether the boat will need modifying to take the rig (I.e. b6 mast requiring the forestay to move aft)
6. Cost, would a used cst 14 or similar be a sensible purchase.
7. Luff curves, will every mast option require a recut?
8. Availability in the uk

Sorry for the long list.

Thanks,

Ed
Roaring Forties GBR1524

Dan H
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 am
Boat Number: 1515
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Re: Mast suggestions and availability

Post by Dan H » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:15 pm

Ed
CST 15 is pretty noodly I believe.

re the rest of the questions, depends on what kind of view you take.

1. What is competitive and would be a wise purchase looking forward ( I am not there yet) I think that CST HM3, Selden Series 3 HM and Beiker/ICE HM are the ones to have, with CTech also being able to make a good mast I believe, and apparently southern spars too, althopugh nothing on the www. I think there were a few CST HM1s in the top 10 at last worlds, which are similar bend to CST14 on a smaller diameter, same weight. Anything you do will necessitate a recut
2. Is it foolish to buy a mast used? Depends as far as I can tell - mileage, careful lady owner etc.
3. I have gunwale mounted shrouds does this influence the decisions Whilst this will nominally change the amount of compression for a given forestay tension, I think that in real terms it won't make a big difference - only to the lower spreader length and defls
4. Reliability of each of the options There have been a spate of breakages but not keen to mention names
5. Whether the boat will need modifying to take the rig (I.e. b6 mast requiring the forestay to move aft) Doesnt matter unless you plan to buy sails with the mast to fit the boat
6. Cost, would a used cst 14 or similar be a sensible purchase.If going through the rigmarole of recutting sails, redoing rigging etc etc then there is a compelling argument to go for a modern stiff HM stick - although I think the CST14 is the most widely used mast around, so getting sails second hand is easier, and getting new sails cut to it will be easy
7. Luff curves, will every mast option require a recut? pretty much - if you are aiming to be a lot stiffer, especially. If you were on a CST14 and went to HM1 it wouldn't really matter
8. Availability in the uk I think that yopu can get all of them in UK if you can wait long enough, and the exchange rate is palatable

JakeSkala
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Re: Mast suggestions and availability

Post by JakeSkala » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:22 pm

Ed and Dan,
Sorry to go slightly sideways on your thread but to clarify, I've been told and reassured that the CST15 is stiffer than a CST14. In fact two people said CST15 was the stiffest before you go HM. The email I recieved was:
"...The 16 is the flexy version on the 14. It's what Fred and I (we were light-weights) used through 2006, up until the chance in mainsail tech that has led the fleet back to super-stiff masts - enter the HM series.
Of the old series, the CST14 (benchmark) and CST15 (stiffer version of the 14; not very many made), are the stiffest. The 14 is the most common - on every RMW Morrison 12 and sold as the standard for a number of years."

So considering your weight, if the above is correct, buying a used CST14 obviously doesn't make sense. If the above is wrong, I'd sure like to know.

I am aware of a HM1 for sale in the UK but considering your weight, you'd want stiffer. I recently got quotes on HM masts from CST, CTech and Henderson to the U.S. if you want to PM me.
Jake Skala

Dan H
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 am
Boat Number: 1515
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Re: Mast suggestions and availability

Post by Dan H » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:14 pm

There is a guy who races in chichester who has recently moved along what was understood to be a cst15, and it was very bendy.
Trouble is with cst sticks is there isn't anything to actually confirm model.As far as I know anyhow.
There was also a thread on here that I dug up a while ago where somebody with access to CST people put a potted history of all the CST masts ever made for 14s.
That should be the point of truth.
Ed - ask Dave D who made the rags and used to crew your boat - reckon he will confirm it is bendy.

The other option open is to pick up a stick, and stiffen with carbon track and / or uni reinforcements.

Managed that successfully on my CST 14 although required a little engineering. Still sh1t at sailing it so caught in the noise to some extents.
Going off piste will mean getting sails made is a pain for all but very scientific or fastidious sailmakers.

Regarding reliability, having the tube built up with laminated / bonded on spreaders and fixings / terminations will help, but obviously is a costly avenue.
And also will only get you so far when the tip is in the bottom and the waves are pounding.

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524
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Re: Mast suggestions and availability

Post by EdS » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:35 pm

An email I got from cst after sending them the job number and code number on my mast, which is how I ascertained that it is a cst15
Some answers to your questions:
 
Your mast is a 2006 mast and is a CST15, which was the standard I14 mast at the time. This mast is approximately 20% softer fore and aft + sideways than the CST14. The current HM mast for I14’s is approximately 20% stiffer fore and aft + sideways than the CST14 for the new square top mains.
So it appears that the cst 15 is less stiff than the cst14.
Dan I found that thread on cst a bieker masts used on 14s

I spoke to Dave d when i got the boat and he said it had a cst 14 and a cst16 when new, which doesn't quite fit unless the following owner bought it without a rig, but it has the original oval boom.

Going off piste haha, interesting context. I know Doug stiffened the cst14 on 1500 as well, so maybe it won't be too difficult on sails.

Going to your original comment Dan, the one careful lady owner sounds great but these boats don't tend to get sailed in Colorado in the USA where mill pond is apparently the norm.

Yes mast head in the ground is not good. Bad memories of starcoss in the b14 with strong tides and 6 ft water depth.

I currently have fully bonded connections on the bast and no holes cut in it, bar the adjustable spreaders. I would like to continue that way and I am happy to do that myself or investigate having a pro do it.

the slowest thing on the boat is me, but it is still nice to know i have no excuse :)
Roaring Forties GBR1524

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