Penny / OD

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Maize_and_Blue
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Maize_and_Blue » Wed May 16, 2012 1:06 pm

Matt, thank you for confirming the shroud tensioning system. Your description and accompanying visual make it perfectly clear how your boat is rigged up. Time to pick up a few pieces of hardware and get the mast stepped. Thanks again!

Fourteen
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Fourteen » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:12 am

Hey Rock
I pulled the plug on my cross III and noted a significant amount of water as well. What did you do to fix all of the leaks. I also pulled off a deck fitting (not on purpose) and noted some very wet wood. :(
I am at a loss as to how to dry the boat out. I have no inspection ports and I cannot envision how to dry the hull or to and repair the damage. Any advice, anyone?

Bill

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Rockthesail
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Rockthesail » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:33 am

I unfortunately do not know how to dry out the wood. i seem to remember seeing some kind of resin compound to strengthen rotted wood. i would definitely recommend putting in some inspection ports. you should be able to see where mine are in previous pictures.

I had to do some work on my daggerboard trunk. really sort of annoying, but i recommend testing for leaks by adding some slight air pressure inside the boat, and using a spray bottle of soapy water to look for leaks. there will be bubbles where there are leaks. my daggerboard trunk had some foam glued in that i had to take out in order to actually see the leaks.
Matt Connolly
1987 Bruce Boatworks OD14 Standard Rig "ON A PLANE"
Live Slow...Sail Fast

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Shu
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Shu » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:22 pm

You need to get fresh air to the wet areas. Put in some inspection ports (seal any wood or foam you cut into when you do this!) Short of moving the boat to Arizona, try hooking up a fan or blower to one of the inspection ports to move air through the boat.
System Three has some rot-repair products.
http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/Rot-Repair-c33.htm
-Steve
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

Fourteen
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Fourteen » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:21 am

Thanks gents
Just ordered 4 inspection ports which I will place port and starboard in the raised section of the bow and in the 'tanks' mid point of the cockpit. With the help of a small blower (air matress inflator) I will blow a continuous stream of air as long as I can stand it. This really sucks to find this stuff in the heart of the sailing season :x I have some epoxy filler for the holes in the deck. I have drilled the #8 holes up to 3/8 and will fill with suitable expoxy and re-tap for the deck fitting, hope it holds. Barring all of this is it an impossible job to remove the entire deck from the hull to effect repairs to the wood underpinnings? Is this more work than a late 80's boat is worth? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.
B

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Re: Penny / OD

Post by fastair » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:01 pm

I tore my OD apart one very cold Feb morning (-36C) with a very wide pry bar. It came apart easy in four chunks, floor, floor support, foredeck and hull. The cold allowed the old compound to just come apart.like peanut brittle I had a big gash in my hull so I was obligated to rip her apart, not something I would recommend unless you like lots of work. There is very little wood in the OD I have. If I could find the pictures I'd send you one along but the main chunk of plywood holds up the foredeck and under the mast step. I think the other wood is along the sides where the jib slide is. Under the floor is a 5-6 legged support made of fiberglass glued to the hull. The foredeck is foam core material and I had to put in some carbon fiber underside when I redrilled my deck hardware holes. I have access ports on the foredeck so it was relatively easy to do this. I found mine also leaked around the centerboard trunk so I super reinforced around the stuffing box as well as up top. I put mine back together with west system epoxy with micro balloons in it. It still leaks but not as much. I'm going to reinforce the floor where it joins the hull with 2 inch carbon fiber tape as that's where I get pressure cracks. You can see a repair in the picture below.

I found where it leaks is around the fittings on the floor. I took a air mattress inflation pump and put it in the drain hole, on LOW and not completely plugging the hole up, some warm soapy water and a paint brush. That will show you with bubbles where the leaks are. OD’s leak. Old OD’s leak a lot. Best you can do is , if you can,reach the areas, reinforce it from underneath, re drill and put the bedding compound right to the holes. Over compound them to keep the water out.

Where did u find wet wood under a deck fitting? I have inspection pots in mine and I pop them out every time I come back from sailing. I should put two on the tanks like you are going to do. I'd bet u can put in some carbon fiber or fiberglass under the wood. I just re epoxied mine when the hull was apart. If you have all four inspection plates open, put her in the direct sunlight with your inflator blowing air through the hull. You will be surprised how quick it will dry out as the bilge keel becomes a little oven.

Good luck!
Too many boats, too little time

Fourteen
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Fourteen » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:45 pm

Fast
The wet wood came from under the deck directly below the main sheet block and cleat which pulled out. Once I get the inspection ports in the side tanks I will grab a few photos of what lies beneath the deck :shock: . I suspect that as you say everything is leaking. Much has been written here and elsewhere about the dagger trunk being particularly troublesome when it comes to leaks, I do not expect to be any different! I will do a soap bubble test once I have properly sealed up all of the holes I am busy creating!
Is it possible that the fiberglass supports you mention are glass wrapped wood? When I redrilled the holes I found what would amount to 1" of soggy wood below the fiberglass deck. Possibly a support rib which runs the centerline of the deck, mast step to transom? Hard to say without having a good look which should come this weekend.
As you have indicated, and I agree, without an extraordanary effort the boat will never again be completely dry. I have the luxury of a boat dock to pull her up on and with the inspection ports I can dry her out after every sail if necessary. I will make an effort to patch and fill the egregious leaks, the rest I will call character!

14

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Shu
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Shu » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:21 pm

A note on overdrilling holes and filling with epoxy:

For wood, once the oversize hole is drilled, wet the wood with un-thickened epoxy. This will soak into the wood and give a good bond between the wood and epoxy. An improvement on this technique is to tap threads into the oversize hole before using epoxy. Use epoxy thickened with colloidal silica to fill the hole. You can add glass or carbon fibers to the epoxy, but beware, it makes it difficult to get all the little air pockets out of the hole. A piece of masking tape over the back side of the hole (if you can reach it) produces a clean finish.

For foam cored fiberglass or carbon, Jack Salerno (or was it Warren McCarthur) of Wet and Sloppy fame told be this technique:
take a piece of wire or nail and bend the tip 90 degrees. Chuck this into a drill motor, insert into the hole and tear out the foam without increasing the hole size in the laminate. Fill the void with epoxy as for wood. I would recommend a syringe to pump the thickened epoxy into the void.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

fastair
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by fastair » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:56 pm

since I'll be up in the loft looking for harnesses tonight, I'll see if I can find the picture I took.. pre digital camera days and show you what you have. I suspect there was a hunk of plywood imbedded in the floor under the main sheet block that got water logged. Let me see what I can find. Is your main sheet block on a little pedestal like mine?
Too many boats, too little time

fastair
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by fastair » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:01 pm

two pictures on my facebook page. sorry about the quality, digital shot a film camera's picture.. first one shows floor supports , next three show all four parts... Yes there was a hunk of plywood below the main sheet pedestal. I wonder if you could dremel out the old wood and cut a plug, insert and carbon fiber/fiberglass over? I was thinking of spraying the trunk with a shultz gun and some sealer from the outside thru the access ports.. like flex sealer... well, its shows a boat with this stuff on it.. who knows, it might work ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJpM8PpLng
Too many boats, too little time

Fourteen
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Fourteen » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:51 pm

Shu
I have effected the repair using a resin/ epoxy filler recommended at my local shop. I did pre-wet the hole and used a syringe to fill the hole from the bottom up to ensure a complete fill per your recommendations. I did not however add any stiffeners (Silica or fiber of any sort). Hope this does not compromize the repair to any great extent. With the help of Fastair's pictures of what is going on below the deck I can now see I am dealing with a localized issue of old punky wood which was used as a backer to the main sheet haul. If I run into further issues I now know where to go after in terms of placing a better backing.

Fastair
Thanks for the pictures. Quality aside they are very helpful to me and I suspect others dealing with issues and just to get a better impression of what is happening under the deck. Your knowledge of these older boats having done a significant repair yourself is excellent and I thank you for sharing.

Cheers
14

give
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by give » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:13 pm

so i just got a penny and i havent gotten much time to go down to my club and really go through everything but i'm pretty sure it doesnt have the mast struts.

can i sail it without these? if not where can i find the specs to have them made i guess?

thanks

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oliver1000
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by oliver1000 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:50 pm

Hi Welcome to the class, I've only been here a couple of years but it's a brilliant class to get into.

What exactly do you mean by mast struts - do you mean the space frame? or do you mean the mast ram? or something entirely different?

Ollie
Ollie Williams
K1282

give
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by give » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:59 pm

sorry i mean the two metal rod looking things that are attached to either side of the mast towards the bottom.

also my boat has the serial #ZTY14034E686

and it seems to have most of what i can make out is the standard rig but my biggest problems are do i need these mast tension rod things and where can i find information on what length and sizes of line i need.

i will post photos later tonight to show what the boat has on it now.

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Shu
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Re: Penny / OD

Post by Shu » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Give,
I'm still a little fuzzy on the nature of the mast struts you describe, but they sound essential to me. If they attach near the gooseneck, without them you will break your mast if you put the vang on hard (and you will want to put the vang on hard).

Nearly all modern boats use short shrouds to the gooseneck or about 2 feet higher for the purpose of resisting the vang.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

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