Clewboard or Batten - you decide

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Haywire
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:08 pm
Boat Number: CAN601

Clewboard or Batten - you decide

Post by Haywire » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:34 pm

Hi All,

Here's another one where different measurers might interpret our class rules differently:
Clew-batten.jpg
Rule 14 (b) (iii) states "...Clewboards having a maximum dimension of 229mm are permitted. Clewboards are defined as being incapable of being folded by hand". We found one jib (above) which had a 400mm batten placed at 45 degrees to the leach and foot - with the pocket placed just inside the edge where you might normally find a clewboard. The batten had no holes like a normal clewboard and the jib sheet attached to webbing stitched directly to the sail in front of the batten. Since this jib was signed by a national measurer, it appeared that this batten was not judged to be an over-length clewboard so the sail was therefore in compliance with the rule. The German measurer was not at the event, so we did not have a chance to talk.

How would you interpret it: Batten or Clewboard? Let me know...

Haywire

PS - I'm not suggesting anyone is breaking class rules, I'm just pointing out that different measurers may interpret the same rule differently since the ISAF equipment rules do not apply to the 14 Class...

Colin Smith
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:18 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Clewboard or Batten - you decide

Post by Colin Smith » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 am

The question is basically what is a clew board ( size limited by the class rules) and what is a batten ( no limit applied). ERS however don't define those terms either ( they use the terms " batten" and "corner board" but don't define them. But rather than spending time trying to create definitions, we seem to be at a point where sails can be made to all sorts of shapes anyway with extra layers of material and "battens", and people don't seem to be objecting to that in principle, we're just debating how you measure the result. And since trying to prevent such shapes is the only reason I can think of for having the clew board size limit, do we just abolish it?

In other words a limit on "clew board" size seems redundant when you can achieve the same effect anyway with battens and extra layers

Colin Smith
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:18 pm
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Clewboard or Batten - you decide

Post by Colin Smith » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:36 am

In fact, it's not clear to me we need any of the current wording about "reinforcement" ( which is supposed to be foldable by hand and applies except to headboards, clew boards and "fittings attached to the sail with a maximum dimension not exceeding 102mm". If you can get round this by inserting something stiff ( no dodgy jokes please!) and calling it a batten, what's the point of having that restriction? ( in fact, are battens not "fittings attached to the sail"? - in which case they should'n't be more than 102 mm long which would be entertaining).

So what if we just delete:

14(a)v (under "Sail measurement method"):
All reinforcement shall be capable of being folded in any direction, measuring no more than 13mm across the fold inward from the folded edge. Any finishing material or coating applied to the sail material shall not prevent the reinforcement being folded. This rule shall not apply to headboards, clewboards, or any other fittings attached to the sail with a maximum dimension of less than 102mm.

And 14(b)iii (under "Headsails"):
Headboards are not permitted. Clewboards having a maximum dimension of 229mm are permitted. Clewboards are defined as being incapable of being folded by hand

Chris Johnson
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:07 pm
Location: Burlington,VT USA

Re: Clewboard or Batten - you decide

Post by Chris Johnson » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:08 pm

I think I would have to agree with Colin here. I'm really not sure what the purpose of limiting the size of the clew board is. Assuming that the LP measurement is taken to the extended intersection of luff and leech (and leaving the challenges of finding that intersection for some sails to the other thread...), then an over sized clew board simply results in the measured area of the sail being somewhat larger than the actual area which already creates a disincentive for extremely odd shaped sails. Given that, the only reason that I can see for such shapes is to achieve a small overlap with the mast with a self tacking jib. But doing so comes at the cost of the loss of the area of the removed triangle of sail at the clew.

Given all that, I really can't see any reason to place any limits on the clew board.

If we were able to solve the issue of how to extend oddly shaped sail edges, and then apply the same logic to the head - that the measurement point is the extended intersection of the luff and leech, then the same logic applies to headboards and there would no longer be a reason to limit/prohibit those either.

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