Newbies to 14's

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Welbeckint14
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Newbies to 14's

Post by Welbeckint14 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:25 pm

Deep breath here goes.. A mate from the sailing club says how do you fancy having a bit of fun this season and buying something a bit different... We are both Laser sailors with varying degrees of success. Err yes I says, what are you thinking? Something like a 505 he says. Next thing I know I am getting into his car and we are off to pick up GBR1336 bought unseen. The smiles of anticipation on the way back from the south coast had to be seen to be believed, what had we bought?
I am now the proud joint owner of a 14, not sure what it is, help to identify would be much appreciated. 'er indoors laughed out loud when she saw the name "Pure Fantasy" believing it to be quite apt for a couple of middle aged balding men who still think they have got what it takes.
Fun has started and we have not stopped grinning. We have now had three sails in light airs - everything seems to be there but we are not necessarily playing them in the right order, to mis-quote the great Eric Morcombe. Been upside down, and the right way up, spinnaker up, spinnaker stuck, spinnaker retrieved... so far so good.
Loads of questions and having looking at the posts and comments on this site the members seem a friendly bunch...
Any idea exactly what our boats is? Does anyone know anything of its history?
The mast is very bendy with carbon top section above the upper spreaders - can this be identified?
Rig tension is somthing of a mystery (remember we come from Laser sailing) How much tension should be on the forestay?
The mast seems to be fully adjustable with levers on the shrouds a mast ram and adjustment on the upper spreaders. How should we play this for optimum fun?
For the first two outings we struggled to get much power into the bottom section of the main, but then discovered by applying loads of cunningham the sail shape improved -is this normal?
I have attached a couple of pictures to help the identification process. The balding guy in the photo with sail up is Martin - it is all his fault. We are still grinning and can't wait to try the boat out in a bit more of a breeze on a bigger water than our local club.
Hopefully Pure Fantasy will turn out to be Pure Fun.
Any 14 action in the midlands? Would like to see some 14's sailed properly...
Thanks, many more installments to follow..
Attachments
GBR1336 sail.jpg
GBR1336.jpg

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rand
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by rand » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:11 pm

Welcome!

Looks like a Howlett 1B? It has been a few years since I last saw mine though.

The ram is for keeping the bottom of the mast straight, we use lower shrouds on the newer rigs to accomplish the same thing. Cunningham (lots of it) is used to bend the mast, sails have been built to be flattened for a while now. Vang (lots of it) is then needed to tighten up the leach and get your power (and pointing).

Your uppers or cap shrouds are used to keep your mast tip, upwind it will fall off a lot, downwind it might just break off (if you don't have the uppers on tight).

Glad you are out sailing, and welcome to 14 sailing!
Rand Arnold
International 14 USA 1143
"A Bumblebee Called Kate"
(former US President, former US Measurer)

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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by BBSCFaithfull » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:45 am

Good Morning and Welcome!

Glad to say you've made the right step by getting a 14. My first boat was an Ovi 2 and cemented my love of the class.

If you'd like more detailed instructions on how to get the boat sort of set up please feel free to PM me. If you fancy a trip to the South east, we sail at BBSC and would be happy to have you guys along for the weekend.

Best,
Alex
Upright not upside down!

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Shu
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Shu » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:43 pm

Welcome to the class.
Ditto what Rand said regarding controls. If you have enough mast ram on, you can bend the top of the mast and flatten the top of the main with the cunningham, while avoiding flattening the lower part of the main.
Also, if you do put huge amounts of vang on upwind, you will want to ease it some for going offwind or reaching, and especially for taking a break to sip some water.
P.S. I got into 14's as a middle-aged balding guy too.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Katie » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:20 am

Hello!
Congratulations on the purchase. I just checked in the class history and it's definitely a Howlett 1b. It was built in 1992 for Robin Nott and was originally called "Caryatid", but looks like the second owner changed it to "Pure Fantasy"...... Good luck with the sailing. 14 open meetings are all very relaxed so do come along to one soon. How about coming to POW week at Restronguet?
Katie

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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Robin Nott » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:59 pm

It was indeed my boat. And great fun I had with it.

But you look so young. Wish I was your age.

Notty.

Welbeckint14
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Welbeckint14 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:01 pm

Many thanks for the identification. and the good wishes.
Howlett 1B that will do me. Not sure exactly what this means but as we learn more about this facinating class I am sure it will become clear. Great to hear from you Notty,the original owner, I can imagine the thrill of owning a brand new 14 and venturing onto the water for the first time, and thanks for the encouragement.
I spotted some advice in a previous post about rigging the spinnaker so will have a go with that. Our concern at that moment with launching the spinnaker is coordinating the pole launch with pulling the kite up, I am sure that we have not got that quite right yet.
We will try out the suggested tweaks this weekend and let you know how we get on.

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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by armchair sailor » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:57 pm

Well I suppose its time for me to come forward & admit it was my idea to buy this int14 with my good friend Ian,
yes that is me in the photo the bald fat guy, I still stand by & say it was a fantastic purchase for the price.
We have issues with the rigging first and foremost, the pole appears to be on a separate line to the spinnaker uphaul ?????
can anyone help with a basic line diagram for the spinnaker/pole
A big thanks to all who have helped identify the boat with a big thanks to Notty, there's an open invitation to come and sail her again
the name will possibly be going back to Caryatid it only seems fitting.
Any help would be very much appreciated as we are just slightly out our depth with certain issues with the rigging.
Many thanks Martin

Welbeckint14
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Welbeckint14 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:37 pm

Well, that didn't go too well! Martin and I tried to follow some the advice given, but somehow we didnt get it quite right. The mast ram to straighten the bottom of the mast - maybe we didn'tput enough on, used lots of cunningham and kept tension on the upper spreaders. Somehow we ended up with no power in the bottom section of the main below the first batten. To cap it all struggled again with the spinnaker - to pole kept retracting as the spinnaker was hoisted. We felt we took a step backwards on Sunday and found ourselves feeling as if we needed to learn to sail all over again. Maybe this is no bad thing.... hopefully all part of the learning to sail 14's curve.
Once back we re rigged the boat on land and managed to get the main looking something like - only trouble is we now need to replicate this. I have read about how 14 sailors keep note of settings - I can see why!
Any further helpful suggestions appreciated.
-Ian

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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Pirate » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:58 pm

Hi:

My son & I bought our 14 5 years ago. He's 22 and & am 66. (BTY the oldest is Allen @ 70 or so). Never had a trap boat let alone a double trap boat. We decided that this was way beyond us, so, there was a lot to learn. We also decided that we had to laugh a lot and talk over the issues. Biggest thing was transfering stability control to the crew including the mainsheet. We had trouble getting off the beach. the first year we flipped 58 times, so, you have to figure out how to keep things organized when you flip so you do not have to untangle everything after you are up right. This forum is great, there is advice and pictures everywhere. You can check out the Rebuild of US1112 thread or Shu's My New Boat. I am sure as you scroll through the thread most of your questions will be answered. Your spinn pole issues is really very simple to fix. The 'New B6' has a ton of picture of the newest rigging.

We are pretty confident in 12 kts but need to get to the 20 plus range before September!

I joined a gym and got a trainer this winter. My back doesn't hurt and neither do my knees any more. I gained 15lbs.

New sail for the Worlds are on the way, can't wait!

Matt & Ed
US1112

Sailtech
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Sailtech » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:16 am

Hi,
The diagram below might help with your pole lunch issue, or it might confuse more.
I use to sail a 1B back in the 90’s, they are great boats and should give you a good feel for 14’s. We use to have a hoist and pole lunch on two ropes next to each other on the floor just by the centre board case. But in my new boat as I am sure all boats are now rigged the hoist lunches the pole as well as per the diagram.

Pete
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Spi and pole.JPG

Welbeckint14
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Welbeckint14 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:34 pm

Thanks for that Pete. We do indeed have the two lines as you describe from your 1B days. It would be good to think that it would be a simple conversion, but I suspect not quite that simple. Martin and I will ponder the diagram and the boat and try and figure it out.
Thinking back to your 1B days... What I have found as the pole is launched and the kite hoisted, if the hoist is not rapid enough the pole retracts as there is not enough load on it. We have nothing that cleats the pole in the extended position. Is that familiar to you?
-Ian

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rand
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by rand » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:51 pm

I'm not aware of any boats where the pole is not cleated when out. But then I haven't seen a boat using the two line system in a while.

The diagram makes the system look overly complicated, I think that there is another one here on the forum someplace that makes it a little clearer.

Basically, instead of the spin halyard exiting the mast and running aft, you run it forward, through one of two bullet blocks (that are shackled together) and then the halyard goes aft as before. For the pole you have a line going forward, turning at the bow back to the other block on the halyard and then back to the bow and terminated.

Then as you hoist, what ever has the least load, halyard or pole, goes out and the shackled block moved back towards the mast until the pole is all the way out. As before if the spin fills, you won't get the pole any further out, unless you are quite studly...
Rand Arnold
International 14 USA 1143
"A Bumblebee Called Kate"
(former US President, former US Measurer)

Sailtech
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Sailtech » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:02 am

Ian,
The diagram does make the system look over complicated (tech guys at Harken) but it is as Rand describes. I would of thought your boat would have all the fixing points needed in the bow and all you would need is two blocks.
Good luck.

Pete

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Shu
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Re: Newbies to 14's

Post by Shu » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:28 pm

Rand keeps bringing new things to mind:
"As before if the spin fills, you won't get the pole any further out, unless you are quite studly..."
The helm can help a lot with this issue by keeping a close watch on the spinnaker as it goes up behind the jib. Just before the spinnaker comes out from behind the jib and fills (this is for those last few pulls of the halyard) turn the boat down briefly. You can't keep it there very long, or you will start doing the low-speed wallowing that usually results in a capsize, but it should be enough to allow the crew to get it all the way up and out.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

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