GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

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EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:09 am

The boat is getting there, well ish.
my house and half sized integral garage is not 14 friendly and it needs to be returned to the club asap.

i have made up several different thickness's of carbon plate (some of the loose weave carbon is hard to get rid of voids even under vacuum, so the middle plate for this is not great, but it makes for surface area for the glue) and i have been playing with the 3mm ish and 2mm ish plate making up soft pad eyes.
this is something i have fancied having a go at since seeing them on the wally 82 and one of the 14s in the uk.

the photos below are the splices buried in the gap between the plates which was glued with a structural adhesive and clamped.

the carbon tube supporting the jib track is bring bonded onto the track mount now and the bottom mounting is finished.

not a huge amount left to get done prior to taking the boat back to the club.
Attachments
photo (21).JPG
fair leads for the jib sheet and the cleats for the cunningham, shrouds,lowers and forestay.
photo (22).JPG
soft pad eye, this one is destined to hold the aft end of the spinnaker bag
Roaring Forties GBR1524

Dan H
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 am
Boat Number: 1515

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by Dan H » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:12 pm

Ed,
I suspect you'll be fine unless you are asking big things of these padeyes and fair leads, but I notice that you are using spabond and sk78 dyneema. Problems with that might be that the spabond is very viscous so won't wet out the fibres of the string giving a good shear bond, also there is a slippery coating on sk78 which will further diminish that property.
I would recommend if doing this again for loaded applications that you use an untreated dyneema, and wet out with neat epoxy, having keyed what would be the underside of the padeye, before backfilling if necessary (if your padeye is done shaped) with microfibre filled epoxy whilst still wet.

Good guide here:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/Upl ... adeyes.pdf

Some of the pull off strengths are pretty impressive.

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:30 pm

Dan,

Thanks for that, very informative, definitely something to test out next time.

Nothing critical is going on here, it is just so when you pull on the rig controls they feed the line into the cleat straight,
the large ring is deflecting the jib sheet so negligible load and the spinnaker back is contending with my foot.

Given you are a fountain of knowledge, any idea where i can get long stainless bolts for the gooseneck on my mast, i think it is a 49er part.
Roaring Forties GBR1524

Dan H
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 am
Boat Number: 1515

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by Dan H » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:01 pm

I'm no fountain but maybe ovington website? Most of those gooseneck parts are Australian Riley fittings - either check for stockists or see if Allen has ripped them off. Either that or just work out length etc and get down a stainless place.

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:10 pm

Thanks Dan i will look them up, I was hoping to find a bolt for this weekend but that didnt happen.

So i seem to be having issues this weekend, can someone remind me how you measure rake on a B5?

I was measuring from the bottom of the transom at the side of the gantry to the black band.
Having thought about it, surely you measure to the top edge of the transom meaning I am out by 10cm which makes sense. So what I saw as 8100 is 8000. Doh

Anyway this is the result and it looks to the eye like way too much rake, or is it?
photo (8).JPG
Um apparently 8100 but looks like way too much rake
The spinnaker sock went away for a patch to the mesh, she looks totally different without it in the boat. I was wondering how a B14 or 18ft skiff bag would go, not sure my crew would keep coming.
photo (9).JPG
Cockpit minus the spinnaker sock
Since relocating the pivot hole in the gantry the biscuit has been redrilled, that is about as close as humanly possible.
photo (10).JPG
The last biscuit post, promise. The left hand on has the new pivot hole since redrilling the gantry. It is only 2cm from the centre of the pintle. compare that with the original on the right, it is a stark difference.
Roaring Forties GBR1524

selsbowbitch
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:58 am
Boat Number: GBR 1525

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by selsbowbitch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:44 am

Hi Ed

Pics of our new system that Sam built below, we have come up with a new method of adjusting from the wing using a similar system to a Musto Skiff Kicker, it worked better than having it attached to the jib sheet but still isn't as good as the twist grip so we'll be looking at how to do that soon, if you have any pics of systems out there currently email them to me if you can (mustoskiff@hotmail.com), will be much appreciated
photo.JPG
photo2.JPG
photo3.JPG

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:31 am

Graeme,

surely you can go around the pintle or mount a block on the pintle and go straight up the tiller to a twist grip.
It might need a spacer or something to keep the block from riding up the pintle which would make the rope pull the cheek block at a funny angle, but it doesnt look hard to overcome.

Then you wont have any issues with helm changing the rope length and you can use the biscuit block and starboard hull block that Sam put on for you.

Ed

ps. nice bit of workmanship Sam has done there, is the biscuit ferous or carbon?
Roaring Forties GBR1524

selsbowbitch
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:58 am
Boat Number: GBR 1525

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by selsbowbitch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:14 pm

Thanks Ed

Yea, I think it should be fairly easy to get the control line into the tiller, just a matter of figuring out how much purchase is needed, too little and Andy won't be able to move it, too much, he'll be winding all day!
Also will need to get the diammeter of the spool right, fortunately we have a full machine shop at work who'll do anything for a case of beer!

As you say, Sam did a nice job, the biscuit is anodised Aluminium I think.

Cheers

Graeme

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:29 pm

Graeme,

The force required is dependant on several thing

- Location of the foil compared to the biscuit pivot point
- How far down the rudder the foil is
- the size of your rudder and therefore the sum of its drag forces
- how strong the elastic is.
- friction in the biscuit (significant if the boat isnt balanced and level when you want to adjust)

Most people seem to use the Ovi barrel, which has spring loaded BBs which engage every 90 degrees, the spindle is quite thin, maybe 6mm.

Have you got a picture of the rudder blade?

Ed
Roaring Forties GBR1524

selsbowbitch
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:58 am
Boat Number: GBR 1525

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by selsbowbitch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:31 pm

Understand. I do already have an Ovi barrel from the old system which I can use & try different purchases etc without any cost implication.
The rudder is one of the Tom Partington designed ones, pic below
rudder.jpg

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:56 pm

Wow that is high aspect.

Does it serve another purpose? .......... as a tooth pick :)

I am still used to a low aspect foil so by comparison my rudder blade is about 3-4x bigger

So looking at the foil it should be just under or slightly behind the pivot, which is ideal.

Just stick a block onto the pintle and drill a hole for the rope to go into to the tiller and you should be away. Kimball has 3:1 and then that barrel and seems to work.
Roaring Forties GBR1524

selsbowbitch
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:58 am
Boat Number: GBR 1525

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by selsbowbitch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:45 pm

Yep, not a lot of steerage when it goes light / wrong in a tack! Certainly makes you work harder on trim :-) Andy can't believe the difference it makes, miles easier to drive the boat, so much lighter on the tiller and it picks up so much faster out of tacks and gybes

Will give it a go and report back

Cheers

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rand
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Boat Number: USA 1143
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Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by rand » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:48 am

So i seem to be having issues this weekend, can someone remind me how you measure rake on a B5?

I was measuring from the bottom of the transom at the side of the gantry to the black band.
Having thought about it, surely you measure to the top edge of the transom meaning I am out by 10cm which makes sense. So what I saw as 8100 is 8000. Doh

Anyway this is the result and it looks to the eye like way too much rake, or is it?
So I don't have a B5, but for every 14 I've had we've always measured rake the same.
1. No uppers
2. Rig tension on
3. Bottom of top band to where the transom intersect the hull (with pods this is off to the side, but the distance is not much and is pretty much the same on all 14's)

The problem with measuring rake to any other point, is that those points vary from boat to boat, boats from a single manufacturer will probably all be the same, but if somebody had a different floor mold, then you can't compare.

Generally the mast is pretty straight up at min rake. Down under they don't change this, they make other adjustments as needed, northerners tend to let the mast back as the breeze kicks up, hard to say which is better :)
Rand Arnold
International 14 USA 1143
"A Bumblebee Called Kate"
(former US President, former US Measurer)

EdS
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm
Boat Number: GBR 1524

Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by EdS » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:09 pm

Thanks Rand.

So it is to the point when the underside of the hull meets the transom, which is what I was doing.

It is odd the it isnt remotely upright, i will check my measurements again and where the black band is.
I was using the measurements (8150-8100 to 8000) from the tech thread which i asked a while ago and these seemed about right for the last rig.

Anyway maybe i will find my mistake at the weekend.

What is the normal gooseneck height above the gunwhales?
Roaring Forties GBR1524

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Shu
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Re: GBR1524 TLC and control line changes

Post by Shu » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:21 pm

I think my gooseneck is about 24" above the gunwales. I can measure this weekend.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

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