Upgrade of US1112

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Pirate
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Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:07 pm

Matt & I bought US 1112 several years ago. Last summer we got serious about sail her. Neither of us has any trap boat experience, though we do sail Lasers. We sailed two to three times a week between May & October and had both Clifton Webb & Cameron Puckey give us some coaching. After 58 capsizes, this winter decided to make a few modifications.
She was originally built in NZ and designed ICE in 1996 and owned by Keith Stahnke & Jonathon Livingston. We bought her from Adam Koller. Last Spring added a self tacking jib, switched to boom sheeting for the main and swivel cam cleat for the helmsman to trim the jib. The Jib halyard, Head stay and main shrouds were moved to the mast step.
The basic plan is to move the control lines and install a 'T' foil rudder. The Cunningham, Vang, upper shroud, and possibly jib traveler car placement we are still discussing. In order to fix some cosmetic things and have the freedom to place things where we want we have removed all the fittings and sanded the deck (After taking pictures). It is amazing how light a naked 14 feels.
Shu has set a good example for attaching the ‘T’ foil mechanism so we have the 5 yards of carbon and the 1” bronze plate. The foil probably will come from Phil and we will attached it to the existing rudder.
The following are PIC of the naked deck. I think we will need supports going from the top of the ruder pod to the chine area or the rail to take the loads from what I have been reading.
I will update there as we go along.

IMG_20120220_155342.jpg
This is the profile. Seems to have very little rocker!
Attachments
IMG_20120220_155422.jpg
IMG_20120220_155415.jpg
The naked deck well sanded

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Shu
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Shu » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:49 am

Ed and Matt,
I've heard that the ICE designs are fast yet unforgiving. Looking at the pictures I would have to agree. The addition of the adjustable tee-foil will help alot with both speed upwind, and control downwind.

I have seen alot of boats using similar rudder pods to yours with the adjustable pintle carrier in a cassette. I think you can just lay-up several layers of carbon over that pod, with generous overlaps onto the deck and transom. That should give you a strong foundation. The fun part will be cutting the aft end of the pod for a precise fit of the cassette. Then lots of carbon reinforcement of the cassette to the pod. Keep the bronze piece wrapped in thin poly (saran wrap?), or a precise plug in the cassette when reinforcing it, or you may find the bronze piece won't fit.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

BWR
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by BWR » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:39 am

I would definately add some structural support from the pod to the gunnels as that boat was a bit soft/flexy back there in 1998-2000 when I sailed her after Keith Stanke built it in San Francisco for the SF Worlds. I think the boat will be great fun to sail and MUCH better/easier to sail with a T-foil. Have fun and get it done so you cand come join us in Hawaii in Oct.

Pirate
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:45 am

Shu
I was thinking that you came up with the best idea. A separate assembly, fitted to the bronze piece. Then it can be percisely aligned and fastened to the pod. The structural integrity of the pod is not compromised and all the interfaces can be controlled.

With polyester I used to use wax paper to keep things from sticking.

Going to try cutting the bronze with my band saw, metal blade and lube of course.

Do you have any thoughts on the twist tiller extension solution v. control line?

Ed & Matt

Hendo
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Hendo » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:06 am

I would set up the foil to a control line to get yourself sailing . you can allways add the twister later.
ask Cameron what he thinks of the Bieker foil, we have the molds in the shop, and could set you guys up.
Kris,
Henderson boat.com

Pirate
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:47 am

Progress to date:

We removed all the old mounting blocks and faired holes with thickened epoxy. All the wood was wet so it would have caused issues later anyway. I did burn through the single layer of carbon skin in several spots, but, fixed those. Trying to figure out how to install carbon laminates without fraying the edges. Shu seems to have this down as his carbon joints look great! I understand that the International Yacht Restoration Society in Newport has said that fine working with carbon requires at least as much skill as working with wood!

We have decided to put 5 control lines about 3.5 feet forward of the transom. Cunningham, Vang, upper shrouds, jib car, and a spare for the 'T' foil if we cannot get a universal joint. We decided not to copy the K3 with the controls forward based on Brad's advice. The design choices (this is an ICE design with no racks) for mounting are: a pedistal like the B6, or mounting the cleats more or less flush with the slope of the topside flair. Or some new idea! The other controls are now on the mast step (Jib halyard, shrouds, forestay).
We haven't worked out the control line take up yet. The new boats seem to wrap the lines around the boat to the opposite side then use bungy which gives them almost a full boat length of take up.

Matt is a ME (Junior going to NY Institute of Technology) so I tasked him with the design of the bronze piece including a FEA showing where to put the lightening holes or slots. I have a friend with a NC Machine who is eager to do something non routine who said he would love to machine bronze. We are going to copy Shu's method and build a casset to hold the bronze piece then attach it to the existing rudder POD.

Since I will need carbon tubes to support the top of the rudder POD, I am going to try using a cardboard tube about 1.5" OD, wrapping it with Wax paper then adding carbon. The idea is if it gets stuck, I can pull the cardboard out in pieces. I am also going to let the tube stick out on one end and add a tab to the carbon part so I can have something to pull on. I have to remember to measure the beam tio be sure its under the max before I put the tubes on.

This is great point in the project as the deconstruction is complete and we can start building the new things.

I have to remember to weigh the truly bare hull beofre I start adding things. It is amazing how many block, shackles, jam clats and other rigging there is on this boat. I did weight the boat with the mast, spin pole, boom and rigging and it came in at 85kg. The mast is 20 and the boom & spin pole about 5 each.

Matt & Ed

Scott
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Scott » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:32 am

Here's an example on a Morrison 8

-Scott
Attachments
morrison 8 control pod.jpg

_chris_
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by _chris_ » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:02 pm

Cool. I hope you gets can bring the finished product to Toronto in 2013!

Dan H
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Dan H » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:11 pm

Re finishing nicely,
Whilst by no means the don, my advice would be as follows: the cloth that you use for any finishing layers will have an effect - go for tighter plain weaves rather than twill 2 x 2s
Look after your cloth - roll if possible, keep it neat.
Use good scissors
Wet out heavier biaxial stuff off the job on clean dry cardboard - gets the resin out of the pot too and gives you longer to work with it.
Always use peel ply - tailor beforehand as part of the prep as necessart
Prep well - so you don't have to change too much on the job. 80% or more of working time spent on prep makes for a much nicer job.
Prob the best trick for finishing layers is to wet out the cloth between 2 sheets of vac bag with a squeegee. You can mark out exactly the size and shape of the patches for subsequent cutting out. You then have clean neat stable pieces of cloth, prob much like working with prepregs with backing film - you can take one side of the vac bag off, lay the wet cloth on the job, and neatly take off the top layer of vac bag before consolidating, leaving razor sharp edges with no fraying.
Use a heatgun once the peelply is on to make the resin less viscous and facilitate tighter consolidation - be careful not to go too hot or you'll melt the peel ply. This also helps with your cure times, but perversely can give a minute or 2 of life when the resin has kicked and you're struggling to get a job finished.
Loads of layers of laquer can hide more ills than you'd think, but is not good practice per se.
Enjoy!

Pirate
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:14 pm

Dan H - After the cloth is wetted out between the two layers of Vac Bag is the cloth cut with scissors or knife? Do I wait until the epoxy starts to go off then removed the vac bag or after its cured?

Ed

Pirate
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:56 pm

Matt & i finalized the design of the control line placement and mounting. The requirements we developed are:

Clean up the cockpit.
Mount the Cam Cleats such that one can get a full hand of fingers under the line easily.
Route the lines along the chine so they are out of the way
Provide a means to 'take up' the slack.

We went through at least five iterations, including mounting everything forward, before finalizing the design.

Since we had trouble using wood for mounting the hardware (got wet and rotted) we decided to use Starboard. This has some advantages. Firstly, for the size, and amount we are using, it is close to the weight of wood and will not rot. Second, we developed a technique for capturing the hardware nuts so we will not have issues when we break something. The starboard is some sort of thermal plastic, so, threading a nut on a 10-32 bolt, heating it slightly, and pushing the bolt into a predrilled hole followed by continuing to push the nut into the Starboard provides a nice nut shaped counterbore. The material that puckers up a little can be easily sanded flush. The Starboard will be fastened to the hull skin with thickened epoxy or 5200 followed by covering it with a layer or two of carbon overlapped about an inch. This is to add a little assurance that epoxy in fact will bond to the Starboard (Still have to test this). The 1" frame should provide enough shear strength for the loads. The fallback is 3/8ths teak. If the carbon looks neat we will clear coat it, if not then paint. Attached is a PIC of the mock up.

Still working on the 'T' foil mounting design.



Matt & Ed
Attachments
IMG_20120311_142914[1].jpg
Mock up of Control lines for T foil, vang, cunningham, upper shrouds & Jib Car

Dan H
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Dan H » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:18 pm

Ed,
Mark out on the (folded) vac bag all the pieces that you intend to add in the laminating session, taking care with orientation / nesting if you are using unidirectional material. All prep adds working time with the resin, which is always good.
Cut with scissors.
Apply the sheet(s) onto the (lightly wetted) job. (masking around the job is usually a good bet too)
Remove the face sheet of bag
Consolidate well, getting the material into any corners and elminating air.
You should have neat edges and no stray strands
Then add the (tailored ) peel ply - it needs to be tailored as it won't accept as much compond curvature as a carbon or glass cloth
Consolidate more, using gentle to moderate heat from the gun.

If you are running multiple jobs in one hit - do each stage for each loocation in turn - more efficient. Plus if you get the cloth onto the job and it is going tacky, chances are you will get it runny with the heat gun and peel ply final stage.

Step back, have a cigarette and a beer.

Pirate
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:40 pm

Matt & I did the final design review on the control mounting and location this weekend.

We decided to mount the controls to a material called Starboard which is a little heaver than wood but for the small amount we are using we thought the delta was acceptable. Starboard permits melting the nuts into the material to hold them captive. This was more complex than we thought. First the holes were drilled. Then we put a nut on a bolt with some bolt protruding and heated it with a torch slightly. This does not require a lot of heat. Then the protruding part of the bolt was pressed into the Starboard until the nut was below the surface. A ring of material was pushed up around the nut. This had to be removed. Removal is much easier right after the nut is pressed in as the material is still soft. After a few seconds the bolt is backed out of the nut. The process of melting and pushing the nut into the existing hole plugged the hole and filled the nut with hard starboard. So, the holes had to be redrilled and the threads in the nut chased. This material is not particularly nice to work with inspite of what the ads say. First it cannot be kept clean.
IMG_20120318_131510[1].jpg
Nuts melted into the Starboard
Sticking it to the hull is a second issue. The web is a little confusing about this. We roughened the bonding surface with 60 grit sandpaper and stuck it to the hull with our friend 5200. Since we are coverning it with several layers of carbon to hold it captive we think it will work. It gets us away from the original issue of the wood rotting and the hardware pulling out.

Pirate
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Pirate » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:38 am

The final configuration looks like this.
IMG_20120318_115832.jpg
Some hardware mounted to the starboard which is fastened to the hull.
Started to add the carbon reinforcement to the shrouds. Came out pretty good. But you have to catch it just right. By the time I was done trimming the epoxy was getting too hard.
IMG_20120319_183217.jpg
Port side shroud base
Next step is to cover the starboard base with carbon and the two control mounts.

I think I messed up the rudder POD. It has had water in it for sometime. We debaited how to get it out and finally I drilled a hole in the flat underside. The POD is cored with something that looks like honey comb which is now exposed. How should I finish the circumfrence of the hole? I intend to keep it open so the water will run out. I probably should make holes on the top side of the pod too.

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Shu
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Re: Upgrade of US1112

Post by Shu » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 pm

Seal the core material with epoxy and let it cure until tacky or firm, but no more than a couple days. Then fill any spaces with epoxy thickened with colloidal silica.
Steve Shumaker
USA 1183

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